Tail Docking

Discussion in 'Hunting Dogs' started by Barat, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. Barat

    Barat Active Member

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    Urgent Survey for owners of Working Spaniels and HPRs

    Recently The NZGTA presented a strong case to the Ministry of Primary Industry for maintaining docking in working spaniels and HPRs
    We are asking all owners of working Spaniels and HPRs to complete the survey at

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/r/NZGTATailSurvey2017 ;

    it only takes a couple of minutes and will provide us with useful statistics on tail length and damage incurred. The survey holds data for if you own 2 dogs, if you own more than 2 please complete the survey however many times as necessary to provide information on all of your dogs. If you require a paper copy of the survey, have issues with the survey or have any new information to be considered for our submission when we collate the data, please contact us at nzgtasurvey@gmail.com
    This survey is very important to support our case to MPI and we appreciate your urgent attention to this by July 10th 2017.
    Although most NZ working spaniels and HPRs are docked, it is still vital that we also collate the lack of injury as evidence for our case.

    Many thanks
    Graeme Palmer NZGTA President
    David Richardson NZGTA Vice President
    Rachel Dellar Working Spaniel Club
     
  2. Ruff

    Ruff Well-Known Member

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    Done!
     
  3. EeeBees

    EeeBees Well-Known Member

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    Me too ... thank you for posting it, [MENTION=356]Barat[/MENTION] ...
     
  4. Munsey

    Munsey GSP Mad

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    Done

    Sent from my SM-J200Y using Tapatalk
     
  5. EeeBees

    EeeBees Well-Known Member

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  6. Pointer

    Pointer Gold member

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    Yep all over
     
  7. Sideshow

    Sideshow Well-Known Member

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    Just tried looks like you need to be in country.
    Maybe Scotland has some research on this, as I see they just changed there laws to now allow it.
     
  8. EeeBees

    EeeBees Well-Known Member

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    Well, I certainly have no wherewithal to breed any more puppies ... it is a travesty ... and so the announcement of the proposed ban's timing was impeccable considering Scotland allowing the Spaniel and HPRs to have shortened tails ... I can pretty well guess what the reaction to this announcement must be for the DD people et al ...
     
  9. Pointer

    Pointer Gold member

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  10. kawhia

    kawhia Well-Known Member

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    the result is hardly a bolt out of the blue, i was always accepting things were always going to go against common sense sooner or later, i strongly feel a lot more could have been done collecting Data from within the working dog sector for both dew claws and tails.
    that information could have been used for the submission put forward by NZGTA, this submission is still live so maybe we should be collecting it now, the battle has been fought for over 20 years largely by the Show people and backed by the NZKC, once they withdrew support in favor of rebranding to DOGSNZ and what ever backdoor dealings they came up with Australia to use the brand......and sponsership deals.
    the DD can continue regardless, we expect DOGSNZ to adopt the aussie breed standards which is the full FCI standard which allows us to move into the VDD welterband rather than the full german registry we are now under.
    this allows us to stay under the JGHV testing.........even with the full rudders.
     
  11. Pointer

    Pointer Gold member

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    Really?

    I saw the docked breeds council's respose today and it made me think. In the last 180 years of the modern gundog, numerous breeds have faced rocky futures due to politics. The Vizsla was exterminated on sight in its home country during both world wars as it was seen as a sign of Hungarian aristocracy. Arkwright sent his pointer kennels abroad in protest at the kennel clubs promotion of shows to the degradation of working dogs. World wars decimated stocks of dogs everywhere, in fact the British sportsmen owe a debt of gratitude to Ireland who were instrumental in rebuilding retriever and spaniel breeds post WW2. Nationalism drove the Germans to try to rid their hunting breeds of the black colour due to it being a sign of English blood. The list goes on. All of these cases make the issue of your dog having a long tail a very minor affair.

    Stopping breeding due to not being able to dock is short sighted. I can almost guarantee that at some stage, you will be able to dock again in this country. History has shown the whims of politicians to be fickle. It's short sighted to give up. If you love your dogs, then continue to breed, train and shoot over them as you have done to this day. Good luck to everyone with docked breeds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  12. kawhia

    kawhia Well-Known Member

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    i think the self docking britt should be fine, i agree with pointer, carry on and give as much support to the NZGTA people that are pushing the exemption for working dogs.
    history tells us bans can be over turned or modified and at this stage it is not written into law just yet.

    we have carried on importing regardless a new male drahthaar fresh off the boat today and a new cocker coming at the end of the year.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  13. johnd

    johnd Well-Known Member

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    Just an alternative devils advocate voice here.

    At the risk of being lumped in with the people that cut their dogs ears with scissors "to make them look cool". Are we not to some extent just following on with what someone has determined to be a "standard"

    Just because it has longtime been so, should we not look to this change as a period where we can truly gauge the medical value of dew claw and tail dock?

    I know when I saw my first Boxer / Brittany / Rottweiller without a tail I thought .... that just aint right.
    Dont get me wrong just trying to see this from another perspective, after all steel shot is good isnt it ?
     
  14. kawhia

    kawhia Well-Known Member

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    why put our dogs through such a point less exercise.........it has already been done over seas and why countries have changed back to docking.
    MPI already have that info but have totally written off the hunting aspect, all it means is we have to now waste time and tax payers money to fix a rushed process that lacked common sense.

    cropping ears was banned many years ago.
     
  15. Pointer

    Pointer Gold member

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    Also, within a few years of undocked dogs you will be able to put together a more comprehensive argument if the incidence of damage increases. And if it doesn't increase, by then you will be used to seeing long tails and it won't matter so much any more :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  16. EeeBees

    EeeBees Well-Known Member

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    The Epagneul Breton with a long tail ... mais non ... !!!
     
  17. 00 buckshot

    00 buckshot Member

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    well if you cant dock a hunting dogs tail why is alright to dock a lambs tail
     
  18. Ruff

    Ruff Well-Known Member

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    The wankers will get to that too. At least we don't eat dog tails, I love lamb tails.
     
  19. Barat

    Barat Active Member

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    Or we could take the information from places such as Aussie (yes they have had a large increase in tail injuries) and Scotland (they do have a reason to reverse the ban for certain dogs).
     
  20. EeeBees

    EeeBees Well-Known Member

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    Yes, [MENTION=120]kawhia[/MENTION] bobtailed Epagneul Bretons are out there; however the T gene, bobtail, mated with a t gene, longtailed, will result, according to my sources in France, 26% bob in a litter of say eight ... the remaining pups will present the t gene, the long tail ... Nature, however, has a glorious but greatly vexing way of keeping us in order ... you mate a T with T and the two become lethal that is to say, the embryos are absorbed and/or for those die and are expelled, or those who have lived long enough to be whelped, display gross physical deformities (spina bifida being one), such as those in the Manx cat ... not for the faint hearted I can assure you. So in a nutshell, those who do not know the complexities of the lethal nature of this, will find that playing God is not tenable ...

    And who would risk the life of an imported bitch with bloodlines from the elite, for the sake of it ... not I ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017

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